Kelly Hawes is assistant editor of CNHI’s Indiana news service. His column appears in Indiana newspapers.
President Donald Trump insists he never lies. And if what he says turns out to be wrong, well, that's not his fault.
"Why do you say I have to apologize?" he asked Michael Scherer, the Washington bureau chief for Time magazine. "I'm just quoting the newspaper, just like I quoted the judge the other day, Judge Napolitano. I quoted Judge Napolitano, just like I quoted Bret Baier."
Trump was talking about a January story in the New York Times. He also referred to Judge Andrew Napolitano, senior judicial analyst for Fox News, and Bret Baier, the network's chief political anchor. The president has cited all three as sources for his tweets accusing Barack Obama of spying on the Trump campaign.
Scherer suggested presidents usually wait for proof before making accusations.
"I'm not saying, I'm quoting, Michael," Trump said. "I'm quoting highly respected people and sources from major television networks."
Trump also mentioned an announcement by U.S. Rep. Devin Nunes, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Trump said the announcement backed up his assertions, but Nunes denied that.
Scherer brought up a Wall Street Journal editorial blasting Trump for "his endless stream of exaggerations, evidence-free accusations, implausible denials and other falsehoods." The editorial noted that intelligence agencies and members of both parties had shot down Trump's wiretapping claim.
"Yet the president clings to his assertion like a drunk to an empty gin bottle, rolling out his press spokesman to make more dubious claims," the editorial read.
The editorial said Trump's credibility was at stake.
"If he doesn't show more respect for the truth, most Americans may conclude he's a fake president," the editorial concluded.
Scherer asked Trump whether he was concerned about a loss of support.
"The country believes me," the president said. "Hey, I went to Kentucky two nights ago. We had 25,000 people in a massive basketball arena. There wasn't a seat. They had to send people away."
He said those who claim the president's approval rating is slipping aren't talking to the right people.
"The country's not buying it," Trump said. "It is fake media, and the Wall Street Journal is part of it."
During the course of the interview, Scherer went through a laundry list of what proved to be false claims, and Trump refused to acknowledge any of them.
"Wait a minute," he said. "I predicted Brexit. What I said about NATO was true. People aren't paying their bills. And everyone said it was a horrible thing to say, and then they found out."
And then there was Sweden.
"I talked about Sweden, and may have been somewhat different, but the following day, two days later, they had a massive riot in Sweden, exactly what I was talking about," Trump said. "I was right about that."
Scherer noted that Trump's comment referred to something that had already happened, not a riot that happened a day or two later.
"No, I am saying I was right," Trump said. "I am talking about Sweden. I'm talking about what Sweden has done to themselves is very sad."
He noted that it was news organizations like the New York Times and CNN that turned out to be so wrong about the presidential election.
"And then Time magazine, which treats me horribly, but obviously I sell," Trump said. "I assume this is going to be a cover, too. Have I set the record?"
Scherer responded that the record actually belonged to another president, Richard Nixon.
"But he was in office longer, so give yourself time," Scherer said.
"OK, good," Trump said. "I'm sure I'll win."
And that's really all that matters, right?